Topic: Hybrid Electric cars

[piersdad]

 The Toyota and Honda hybrids are out and getting well established.
From a forum I gleaned the idea that although they are really good around town they are not so good on a long country hill as the electric boost runs out and just the 1 litre petrol motor is doing all the work.
so now the amateurs are getting into the scene and some are adding a lot more batteries to the cars and charging them each night.
They are now called 'plug in hybrids'
They get up to 80 miles per gallon around town so that?s really a good thing as you may even forget where the nearest petrol station is between tanks

[briancol]

Hybrid cars are not all tht they are cracked up to be at the present moment.  I have done my homework regarding importing hybrids from Japan, and`I have discovered the folklowing:
1. The Toyota Prius (the first hybrid) was released in Japan in 2000.
2. The battery life in these cars is approx 5 years.
3. When the battery "dies" it affects the gear box as well.
4. Cost of replacement batteries is approx $6,000
5. Cost of repairing or replacing gear box, approx $3,000

Therefore, although the concept is a good one, until a lot more research and developement has been done into the hybrid concept, they are not a practical or ecconomical form of transport.
In a recent test done in the United States, a Lexus 4Wd Hybrid and a Mercedes Benz ML270 diesel SUV were driven from New York to San Francisco.  The Mercedes Diesel was a lot more ecconomical and cheaper to run than the Toyota Hybrid.
People looking for economy in a motor vehicle should look at the new generation diesels. They are no longer slow and cumbersome, they don't pollute any more, and even after paying road tax, they are a lot cheaper to run.
Kiwis have to get over this misconception that diesel engines are only for trucks.  Just look at the number of diesel cars being sold in Europe.

[piersdad]

some thing i have always maintained is for electric cars to have leased batteries or at least a battery cost replacement  account.
after 5 years you have to replace your 'fuel' tank at $6000
  if a widespread leasing of traction batterys was in force the most economical battery in costs per mile will soon surface

[briancol]

That's a fair enough comment Piersdad, however, it is totally impractical.  No one knows what the life of a motorcar is. It could drive out of the showroom and be written off, or as in the case of New Zealand, it could have a life expectancy of 20 or more years.

If a manufacturer were to incorporate a battery leasing factor into the cost of a new motor vehicle, the purchase price would be prohibitive to everyone except the filthy rich.

As New Zealand's second hand vehicle fleet is predominantly used imports, this leasing idea would not apply to any imported vehicles.  For example, if a used import has been the subject of a manufacturers recall and the problem has not been rectified before it comes to NZ, the manufacturer will not recognise the fault and any rectification is the responsibility of the NZ owner.

The only answer, as I see it, is for a lot more research and developement to be done to improve battery life.   I have read that Subaru are currently developing a battery system with a VERY long life, but they are not prepared to introduce it untill they are positive that their system is foolproof and reliable.

Roll on that day.

[piersdad]

Sealed Nickel-Metal Hydride (Ni-MH) [2]
    Power output 28 hp (21 kW)
    Voltage 201.6V
Hybrid System Net Power 110 hp (82 kW
just looked at the battery and the high voltage is the killer as it menas aprox 86 cells in various groupings.
i suspect the problem with such a hybrid is that if yu are lead footed it would be easy to overload the system  especially if some one has tinkered with the acceleration factor and got it going better and over stressed the rest of the gear.
the permanent mag synchronous motor will be very harsh on gear train unless it is throttled very carefully .
  the stall torque from one of those will shear the best of of gear box train.

295 lb.-ft. @ 0-1200 rpm
this torque could be trebeled under uncontrolled power to motor at stall or low speed


i know 'been there done that'

[briancol]

Actually pd, being heavy footed has nothing to do with charging the batterys in the hybrid.  Don't ask me how they do it, but most of the charging is done when the car brakes.

[piersdad]

if you tweek the accelerating of the hybrid the motor as well as the electrics come into play as well and this is where the high acelerating torque come into play.
electrics have all their torque at zero speed and petrol gets max torque at mid speed -- 3-4 k revs
when ever the power requirements are less than the petrol motor can supply the petrol charges the batteries  so cruising at 50 km   and slowing down are all charging times.
starting up and going to 17 km is all battery  and then the petrol motor gets to do its bit.

so a simple glitch in the computors programme will do a lot of harm.
a friend of mine had his mobility scooter with a bit too much acceleration fed into the computor controlled power supply and it stripped his gear box as it was not designed to take all the power from the batteries at once( a crap design from the scooter maker there elcheapo gears to save money on a $2500 transaxel)

so a small design fault in the controller can have serious results 

Postet at: October 07, 2005, 01:47:18 AMfinally got a pic of my hybrid car i built in 1975
used it for a few years till i built a better car.

two accelerators so that ether petrol or electrics could be used or both.
top speed was 70 mph on electrics and more on petrol.
the motor was a V W motor and the vw gearbox transaxel was hashed around with a drive shaft out of its front end and column change gear linkages added.
all controlls were manual so it was reasonably complicated to drive  but a lot of fun




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